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Post 1 \| New	Posted July 26th, 2005
Azz the barbarian. grrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,851 Type: Administrator	Ha, show me a GTA release that wasn't surrounded in controversy? But even Max Clifford couldn't have planned one as inane as this. So as usual I'm a bit behind the times (forgive me, full time employment and an aversion to tabloid media means I only hear about things when they hit the proper papers..). Let me see if I've got this straight. Rockstar included sex scenes in San Andreas. Before an ESRB rating was applied for this material was removed from the main game process, but the code was left in. Rating was agreed upon, then someone has released a patch that puts these scenes back into the main process so they appear in the game itself. Seemst he be the gist of it. "It appears that the publisher has blatantly circumvented the rules in order to peddle sexually explicit material to our youth" - Fred Upton, Republican Congressman. First and foremost, the rating that was originally agreed upon was M, as in mature, or 17 or older. Definitions may differ across the pond but I wouldn't describe a 17 year old as a youth. But irrelevant of terminology, are Fred honestly telling us 17 year olds are sexually unaware? He should come down to Doncaster some time, I'll introduce him to 17 year olds with 4 year old kids and open his eyes a little. Secondly it seems that Fred, and to be fair other political bandwagon jumpers, seems to have got things arse about face. From my point of view (which granted may be a little biased as an 8 year gta webmaster, although I'm not beyond criticising the GTA games (cross-ref: GTA2) ), it seems that the material was removed to appease the ESRB and get a rating. That to me smacks of self-censorship and surely should be congratulated? Yes the code was left in, but Rockstar aren't stupid, they obviously knew the problems the ESRB would have with the material which is why the removed it, so why would they leave it in with the intention of it being found? More likely is it not that deadlines loomed and procedure calls deleted to save time. I've said this in the forums, but I'll say it again. I still really can't get my head around the way American sensibilities work. Here's how it appears to a Yorkshirelad. You're America (hi). Your constitution says people can bear arms, you have foreign policies that are internationally acknowledged to be "dubious", you seem to war at the drop of a hat and pretty much seem to swim around in violence. Conversely, you can't drink until you're 21, your tv censorship is bordering on the insane, and your "family values" fronts are the biggest bunch of prudes. You sell violence, but repulse sex. As I say, it's obviously a cultural divide but I don't get it. In San Andreas you can smash someone's head in with a baseball bat, driveby hundreds of people and generally do any manner of nasty things. But one good old fashion sex romp and the politicians are up in arms. Priorities people.. Having said that I still stand by my belief that the GTA games should all be 18+ games, and any parent who buys it for their child without a comprehensive understanding of the content is irresponsible and should have their kids shipped off into care asap. Their not games for kids. What everyone, politicians, kids, parents, everyone, has to understand is that the original generation of computer gamers (hi, that's us, ie 25-30 yrd old) is growing up, and we don't want to sit around playing Mario and Galaga any more. Adult gamers want adult content. It's like those people who think all Manga is just children's cartoons. Get them to watch Urotsukidôji and then say that. People grow up, as do games. I genuinely (perhaps naively) believe that Rockstar are not targeting children with their games. Certainly back in the DMA days at least they struck me as a bunch of guys making games they'd enjoy playing. And that's that. Now shut up bitching. Eesh. (link: BBC News ) ------------------ azz.gouranga.com est. 1998 (I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 1 | New

Posted July 26th, 2005

Azz
the barbarian. grrr

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,851
Type: Administrator

Ha, show me a GTA release that wasn't surrounded in controversy? But even Max Clifford couldn't have planned one as inane as this.

So as usual I'm a bit behind the times (forgive me, full time employment and an aversion to tabloid media means I only hear about things when they hit the proper papers..). Let me see if I've got this straight. Rockstar included sex scenes in San Andreas. Before an ESRB rating was applied for this material was removed from the main game process, but the code was left in. Rating was agreed upon, then someone has released a patch that puts these scenes back into the main process so they appear in the game itself. Seemst he be the gist of it.

"It appears that the publisher has blatantly circumvented the rules in order to peddle sexually explicit material to our youth" - Fred Upton, Republican Congressman.

First and foremost, the rating that was originally agreed upon was M, as in mature, or 17 or older. Definitions may differ across the pond but I wouldn't describe a 17 year old as a youth. But irrelevant of terminology, are Fred honestly telling us 17 year olds are sexually unaware? He should come down to Doncaster some time, I'll introduce him to 17 year olds with 4 year old kids and open his eyes a little.

Secondly it seems that Fred, and to be fair other political bandwagon jumpers, seems to have got things arse about face. From my point of view (which granted may be a little biased as an 8 year gta webmaster, although I'm not beyond criticising the GTA games (cross-ref: GTA2) ), it seems that the material was removed to appease the ESRB and get a rating. That to me smacks of self-censorship and surely should be congratulated? Yes the code was left in, but Rockstar aren't stupid, they obviously knew the problems the ESRB would have with the material which is why the removed it, so why would they leave it in with the intention of it being found? More likely is it not that deadlines loomed and procedure calls deleted to save time.

I've said this in the forums, but I'll say it again. I still really can't get my head around the way American sensibilities work. Here's how it appears to a Yorkshirelad. You're America (hi). Your constitution says people can bear arms, you have foreign policies that are internationally acknowledged to be "dubious", you seem to war at the drop of a hat and pretty much seem to swim around in violence. Conversely, you can't drink until you're 21, your tv censorship is bordering on the insane, and your "family values" fronts are the biggest bunch of prudes. You sell violence, but repulse sex. As I say, it's obviously a cultural divide but I don't get it. In San Andreas you can smash someone's head in with a baseball bat, driveby hundreds of people and generally do any manner of nasty things. But one good old fashion sex romp and the politicians are up in arms. Priorities people..

Having said that I still stand by my belief that the GTA games should all be 18+ games, and any parent who buys it for their child without a comprehensive understanding of the content is irresponsible and should have their kids shipped off into care asap. Their not games for kids. What everyone, politicians, kids, parents, everyone, has to understand is that the original generation of computer gamers (hi, that's us, ie 25-30 yrd old) is growing up, and we don't want to sit around playing Mario and Galaga any more. Adult gamers want adult content.

It's like those people who think all Manga is just children's cartoons. Get them to watch Urotsukidôji and then say that. People grow up, as do games. I genuinely (perhaps naively) believe that Rockstar are not targeting children with their games. Certainly back in the DMA days at least they struck me as a bunch of guys making games they'd enjoy playing. And that's that.

Now shut up bitching. Eesh.

(link: BBC News )

------------------
azz.gouranga.com
est. 1998
(I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 2 \| New	Posted July 26th, 2005. Updated July 26th, 2005
DaDa123 Yuki-San Joined: Aug '03 Posts: 969	The problem is a game with a rating of "AO" will have a difficulty selling it because most retail store will not carry "AO" games. This will effect R* profit, if GTA SA is rated with an "AO" (acutally now it is). Therefore by just disabling the full sexual explict content within the game, lowers their game category well within the "M" rated category. By rating it with a "M", most retail stores will sell it, and therefore R* will get some profit out of it. I guess R* should have completely taken out than feature, but since they just disable that feature, without any future cautions or concerns that someone will actually find it and enable it seems a bit idiotic. Yes some manga/anime is not only for children, for exampleSpoiler: D+Vine (Luv) (That was not suppose to be a spoiler, but a censor title). Here is something else interesting... topic 3843 The very first post, with the provided link. As well as the letter they send, tell them that "mods" are not the roots of all evil in games. letter

Post 2 | New

Posted July 26th, 2005. Updated July 26th, 2005

DaDa123
Yuki-San

Joined: Aug '03
Posts: 969

The problem is a game with a rating of "AO" will have a difficulty selling it because
most retail store will not carry "AO" games. This will effect R* profit, if GTA SA is rated with
an "AO" (acutally now it is). Therefore by just disabling the full sexual explict content within
the game, lowers their game category well within the "M" rated category. By rating it with
a "M", most retail stores will sell it, and therefore R* will get some profit out of it.

I guess R* should have completely taken out than feature, but since they just
disable that feature, without any future cautions or concerns that someone will actually
find it and enable it seems a bit idiotic.

Yes some manga/anime is not only for children, for exampleSpoiler:

D+Vine (Luv)

(That was not suppose to be a spoiler, but a censor title).

Here is something else interesting...
topic 3843

The very first post, with the provided link.
As well as the letter they send, tell them that "mods" are not the roots of all evil
in games.
letter

Post 3 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005
GtAkReYz (^_^) / Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 832	I'll just hope it doesn't get to the local papers and I have to explain my parents why the game I bought doesn't have this sexual content unlocked and that I wasn't even quite aware of what all this fuss was about... Not to mention the suspitious eye whenever I'll be playing that game (and their pimping missions ). People should be concerned that a kid like my 13year-old cousin should have no access to the normal version of the game which already includes the said pimpin' missions, prostitutes, more than explicit violence, etc... Now to make a huge deal about selling the game to 18+ instead of 17+, that's just plain fucking STUPID. ------------------ Closed for study. HAHA, last year! Then, off I go to work... Not anymore, hell yeah, I design buildings now. And Malls. ------------------ //my GTA cars //my creations

Post 3 | New

Posted July 27th, 2005

GtAkReYz
(^_^) /

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 832

I'll just hope it doesn't get to the local papers and I have to explain my parents why the game I bought doesn't have this sexual content unlocked and that I wasn't even quite aware of what all this fuss was about...

Not to mention the suspitious eye whenever I'll be playing that game (and their pimping missions

).

People should be concerned that a kid like my 13year-old cousin should have no access to the normal version of the game which already includes the said pimpin' missions, prostitutes, more than explicit violence, etc... Now to make a huge deal about selling the game to 18+ instead of 17+, that's just plain fucking STUPID.

------------------
Closed for study. HAHA, last year! Then, off I go to work... Not anymore, hell yeah, I design buildings now. And Malls.

------------------

http://www.kromespot.net/gta/images/kabanner_gray.gif

//my GTA cars

//my creations

Post 4 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005
Tiki223 Konichiiwa! Joined: May '05 Posts: 54	One day as I was browsing for some PC games at this gaming store. A kid around the age of 12 years old came in with his grandma and he was holding a copy of GTA VC for PS2. He went to the counter and said he wanted to sell his game. (Now this when most of the people knew about the "hot coffee" mod.) So I guess his parent might have heard about the news, therefore he now has to sell that game off. The cashier took the game and scanned it and said this is worth $1.00! That kid's face seems as if he was in total shock. Then he took out this card (I assume it's one of those discount or membership cards) and hand it to the cashier. The cashier took it and scanned it. He then said that will be $0.15 cents more. The kid took it anyway. Let's see.. *GTA VC for PS2 (at the time of release) aprox: $49.99 Selling GTA VC back to a gaming store and he got back: $1.15! He has lost: $48.84! What have we learn here? * Taxes are not included or calculated. ------------------ "There an unreachable place that is still so far away, so far that we just gaze at it with one hidden desire". -AIR

Post 4 | New

Posted July 27th, 2005

Tiki223
Konichiiwa!

Joined: May '05
Posts: 54

One day as I was browsing for some PC games at this gaming store.
A kid around the age of 12 years old came in with his grandma and
he was holding a copy of GTA VC for PS2.

He went to the counter and said he wanted to sell his game.
(Now this when most of the people knew about the "hot coffee" mod.)
So I guess his parent might have heard about the news, therefore he now has
to sell that game off.

The cashier took the game and scanned it and said this
is worth $1.00!
That kid's face seems as if he was in total shock.
Then he took out this card (I assume it's one of those discount or membership
cards) and hand it to the cashier.

The cashier took it and scanned it. He then said that will be $0.15 cents more.

The kid took it anyway.

Let's see..

***GTA VC for PS2 (at the time of release) aprox: $49.99
Selling GTA VC back to a gaming store and he got back: $1.15!
He has lost: $48.84!

What have we learn here?

*** Taxes are not included or calculated.

------------------

"There an unreachable place that is still so far away,
so far that we just gaze at it with one hidden desire".

-AIR

Post 5 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005. Updated July 29th, 2005
Cerbera Ben 'Cerbera' Millard Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,819	The controversy is actually centered around the attorney Jack Thompson, who has brought prosecutions about the possible role of computer games in events like Columbine and other tradegies. I fundamentally disagree with this notion that computer games turn ordinary people into criminals. Infants are able to distinguish between real events and "make-believe" and they are able to handle concepts as advanced as deception (telling tales). What I find worrying is that adults working in the "justice" system and centers of government, seem to have forgotten this lesson. The actions portrayed in games are virtual and (especially in the case of the GTA series) distinctly unrealistic. I takes severe emotional and/or physical trauma for someone to lose the distinction between virtual events and real events. From the middle of their single-digit years, people are able to realise that the events taking place in a game or a cartoon are virtual and, as such, do not really apply to normal life. The whole controversy is misguided. Computer games don't create criminals, so there is no reason to legislate against them. Setting aside the contradiction of rating consentual reproduction as a more obscene act than mass-mudering rampages with people buring and screaming on the sidewalk, the comically blocky character models, the paramedics who turn up and resuccetate any unconcious person, the fact that the events are purely virtual and no persons or property are damaged in any way whatsoever, banning games will not reduce crime. In fact, denying entertainment from young people is one of the most effective ways of making youths turn to rather more disruptive forms of entertainment, where people do get hurt, where property does get damaged and where the public is put at risk. Therefore, the ratings system is counter-productive since it is removing a lot of the non-disruptive entertainment available to youths, which causes them to seek other ways in getting their kicks. I think the guidance notes should stay so that people can make an informed choice before purchasing the product. Banning people from games based solely upon how many times the Earth has travelled around the nearest star is ludicrous. The Truth About Violent Youth and Video Games (as co-orberated by governmental statistics from other nations) is that since the explosion of video gaming and other video-based entertainment media, less crimes are being committed by youths. This may just be coincidence but the result is clear: Today's youth is much less violent than the previous generations was. We need to be debating this fundamental misconception about the issue. Until politicians acknowledge video entertainment has little effect on crime and may even be reducing crime, this controversy serves only to distract from tackling the real crimes which are committed. Every ordinary person, gamer or not, wants less crime in their everyday lives. Global panick over a few pixels isn't going to make that a reality. ------------------ (Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor \| GTA Tutorials)

Post 5 | New

Posted July 27th, 2005. Updated July 29th, 2005

Cerbera
Ben 'Cerbera' Millard

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,819

The controversy is actually centered around the attorney Jack Thompson, who has brought prosecutions about the possible role of computer games in events like Columbine and other tradegies.

I fundamentally disagree with this notion that computer games turn ordinary people into criminals. Infants are able to distinguish between real events and "make-believe" and they are able to handle concepts as advanced as deception (telling tales). What I find worrying is that adults working in the "justice" system and centers of government, seem to have forgotten this lesson. The actions portrayed in games are virtual and (especially in the case of the GTA series) distinctly unrealistic. I takes severe emotional and/or physical trauma for someone to lose the distinction between virtual events and real events. From the middle of their single-digit years, people are able to realise that the events taking place in a game or a cartoon are virtual and, as such, do not really apply to normal life.

The whole controversy is misguided. Computer games don't create criminals, so there is no reason to legislate against them. Setting aside the contradiction of rating consentual reproduction as a more obscene act than mass-mudering rampages with people buring and screaming on the sidewalk, the comically blocky character models, the paramedics who turn up and resuccetate any unconcious person, the fact that the events are purely virtual and no persons or property are damaged in any way whatsoever, banning games will not reduce crime. In fact, denying entertainment from young people is one of the most effective ways of making youths turn to rather more disruptive forms of entertainment, where people do get hurt, where property does get damaged and where the public is put at risk.

Therefore, the ratings system is counter-productive since it is removing a lot of the non-disruptive entertainment available to youths, which causes them to seek other ways in getting their kicks. I think the guidance notes should stay so that people can make an informed choice before purchasing the product. Banning people from games based solely upon how many times the Earth has travelled around the nearest star is ludicrous. The Truth About Violent Youth and Video Games (as co-orberated by governmental statistics from other nations) is that since the explosion of video gaming and other video-based entertainment media, less crimes are being committed by youths. This may just be coincidence but the result is clear: Today's youth is much less violent than the previous generations was.

We need to be debating this fundamental misconception about the issue. Until politicians acknowledge video entertainment has little effect on crime and may even be reducing crime, this controversy serves only to distract from tackling the real crimes which are committed. Every ordinary person, gamer or not, wants less crime in their everyday lives. Global panick over a few pixels isn't going to make that a reality.

------------------
(Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor | GTA Tutorials)

Post 6 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005
Azz the barbarian. grrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,851 Type: Administrator	I thought the whole "GTA made me do it" was a different controversy? This time they're at GTA about sex scenes, not violence (which seems the be the mainstay of American politics at the moment).. ------------------ azz.gouranga.com est. 1998 (I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 7 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005. Updated July 27th, 2005
Cerbera Ben 'Cerbera' Millard Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,819	Azz wrote: I thought the whole "GTA made me do it" was a different controversy? This time they're at GTA about sex scenes, not violence (which seems the be the mainstay of American politics at the moment).. Since the scenes of extreme violence don't turn gamers into criminals, scenes of comically unrealistic sex won't influence them either. Doing the flight school doesn't train people to become pilots, the weapons don't train people to kill, the scenes of censentual intimacy won't turn people into rapists and the paramedic missions don't make people want to take a medical degree. Games don't influence people in such a drastic way. There is no need for global panic about their content. Jack Thompson has attempted to capitalise on this latest controversy by portraying the games as instilling sexual depravity into people as well as training them to kill. This prompts the politicians into making vote-winning speeches about how terribly important it is to protect young people from their impressionable (i.e. stupid) selves. It's the same age-old (and age-related) misconceptions, just a different smell. ------------------ (Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor \| GTA Tutorials)

Post 7 | New

Posted July 27th, 2005. Updated July 27th, 2005

Cerbera
Ben 'Cerbera' Millard

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,819

Azz wrote:

I thought the whole "GTA made me do it" was a different controversy? This time they're at GTA about sex scenes, not violence (which seems the be the mainstay of American politics at the moment)..

Since the scenes of extreme violence don't turn gamers into criminals, scenes of comically unrealistic sex won't influence them either. Doing the flight school doesn't train people to become pilots, the weapons don't train people to kill, the scenes of censentual intimacy won't turn people into rapists and the paramedic missions don't make people want to take a medical degree. Games don't influence people in such a drastic way. There is no need for global panic about their content.

Jack Thompson has attempted to capitalise on this latest controversy by portraying the games as instilling sexual depravity into people as well as training them to kill. This prompts the politicians into making vote-winning speeches about how terribly important it is to protect young people from their impressionable (i.e. stupid) selves. It's the same age-old (and age-related) misconceptions, just a different smell.

------------------
(Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor | GTA Tutorials)

Post 8 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005
chrisrockz Joined: Jul '05 Posts: 47 Type: Banned	I actually saw a website that showed video of the 'hot coffee' content. It was funny! CJ has sex fully clothed with naked chicks....with a gta vc poster in the background! It was more goofy than sexual. I'm just disappointed that vice city didn't have as much as san andreas. I'm a bible basher myself, and am not offended by gta content. ------------------ Grand Theft Auto: FLINT

Post 9 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005
chrisrockz Joined: Jul '05 Posts: 47 Type: Banned	How can anyone say gta causes crime? Nobody ever accuses police drama themed games of making kids want to fight crime, right? ------------------ Grand Theft Auto: FLINT

Post 10 \| New	Posted July 27th, 2005
MC Tougey T HAPPY HUSTLIN' Joined: Jun '03 Posts: 3,908	I think if anyone else accuses GTA games of causing violence we should go down to their house and shoot them in the face and their family too. ------------------ EVERY DAY A GANGSTA DAY SHOUT OUTS TO: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Post 11 \| New	Posted July 28th, 2005
TheClap Joined: Aug '04 Posts: 175	i think the reason this particular case has been so overblown is because nobody in government knows what the fuck they are talking about. They are leading people to believe that "there are sex scenes in San Andreas, and if you put in a seceret code, you get to see them" They dont understand, it's a Mod! The reason they dont understand is probably becuase they dont know what a mod is. And because they haven't played a video game, ever in their lifetime. The bottom line is, the scenes are NOT in the game. They are ONLY there if the player CHOOSES to go on-line and manipulate the game's code to add them in. Normally, I would only be mildly pissed off if the news was bashing GTA (they do they everyday anyway) but this time it's costing Rockstar millions. And that could affect the quality of the next game!

Post 11 | New

Posted July 28th, 2005

TheClap

Joined: Aug '04
Posts: 175

i think the reason this particular case has been so overblown is because nobody in government knows what the fuck they are talking about. They are leading people to believe that "there are sex scenes in San Andreas, and if you put in a seceret code, you get to see them" They dont understand, it's a Mod!

The reason they dont understand is probably becuase they dont know what a mod is. And because they haven't played a video game, ever in their lifetime.

The bottom line is, the scenes are NOT in the game. They are ONLY there if the player CHOOSES to go on-line and manipulate the game's code to add them in.

Normally, I would only be mildly pissed off if the news was bashing GTA (they do they everyday anyway) but this time it's costing Rockstar millions. And that could affect the quality of the next game!

Post 12 \| New	Posted July 29th, 2005
kab NR. 47 Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 291	This is all just a result of a phenomenon I like to call "most american people are dumb as bread"-syndrome... You really think that grown up, seemingly intelligent men and women in that country would KNOW (they most likely do, but have convinced themselves through some sort of self-imposed brainwashing that they don't) that any 17 year old kid knows what sex is, and therefore wouldn't use the fact that this game has a M rating as their angle. No, don't focus on what's an actual problem, let's say this game is teaching people something they already know and then punish the creators of a game for removing this knowledge from their game, not quite enough... It gives me a fucking headache really, it makes me fear for the sake of mankind, not because alot of humans are stupid, but because the stupidest of us have the most nuclear weapons. Now, the problem isn't even that parents are buying these games for their young kids, atleast not if their kids aren't mentally challenged. I was born in 1988, that makes me 17 years old, when I was 6 I played Wolfenstein 3D, I knew it was a videogame, I knew perfectly well what a videogame was, I wasn't aware that I was killing nazi's, but I knew I was killing a bunch of data in a videogame. I played Doom when I was 7, when I got my computer, in 97 I played GTA, all while ten years younger than what these people are saying is too damn young to play violent videogames, and I turned out fine. Why? Because I'm not stupid, children down to the age of what, 3 years old, watch Tom and Jerry, and they know it's a cartoon, they don't go out into the world banging cats in the head, why? Because they aren't that fucking stupid, they know things don't work like that in real life. This is a fact these politicians don't like, because every generation has some form of entertainment that the politicians fear, and twenty years later, we all laugh at their stupid arses for arguementing against it. This happened with the rock of Elvis, this happened with every new technological advancement and music-genre that the older generation thought imposed on some values, or really, that they knew nothing about and was unvilling to learn anything about before they deemed it inappropriate. Videogames are in company not only with Elvis, but such terrible things as radio, television, vinyl-albums, cassette-tapes, cd's, comicbooks, the list goes on, and unless some smart people in governments start embracing technology instead of being afraid of it, the list will go on until some american arsehole blows us up in about 50 years. You see, the problem is these people never played a videogame, they never gave it a chance, just as noone actually read Ozzy's "satanist" lyrics or anyone actually listened to Elvis before they banned him from shaking his hips on TV, now, I don't know this for a fact, but it sure as hell seems like it. They don't know what a mod is, they don't even have an idea what a cheat code is, because they seem to use the term code in their arguements like they have no idea that this code has to be entered through a second-party device (gameshark or the hot-coffee mod). Let me use myself as an example once more, back when i was in the second grade, that is 8 years here in Norway btw, I was already quite aware that people were using cheat codes in video games, I even knew this was most commonly used to test games more easily. Now, how come someone can't explain this whole thing to someone in a way that makes them see Rockstar never wanted this to be seen, never tried hiding it, when this information about programmers shortcuts had made it's way to an 8 year old kid that fully understood what it was all about, and that in '96... I could rant for ages about why people suck, and why things are never going to change unless people stop being morons about these things and stop fearing the unknown, it's why we have racists btw, not to mention terrorists and other fundamentalists, like american bible-hugging, close minded twats liek good 'ol George... It's all just sign of what I like to call "most american people are dumb as bread"-syndrome... ------------------

Post 12 | New

Posted July 29th, 2005

kab
NR. 47

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 291

This is all just a result of a phenomenon I like to call "most american people are dumb as bread"-syndrome...

You really think that grown up, seemingly intelligent men and women in that country would KNOW (they most likely do, but have convinced themselves through some sort of self-imposed brainwashing that they don't) that any 17 year old kid knows what sex is, and therefore wouldn't use the fact that this game has a M rating as their angle. No, don't focus on what's an actual problem, let's say this game is teaching people something they already know and then punish the creators of a game for removing this knowledge from their game, not quite enough...

It gives me a fucking headache really, it makes me fear for the sake of mankind, not because alot of humans are stupid, but because the stupidest of us have the most nuclear weapons.

Now, the problem isn't even that parents are buying these games for their young kids, atleast not if their kids aren't mentally challenged. I was born in 1988, that makes me 17 years old, when I was 6 I played Wolfenstein 3D, I knew it was a videogame, I knew perfectly well what a videogame was, I wasn't aware that I was killing nazi's, but I knew I was killing a bunch of data in a videogame. I played Doom when I was 7, when I got my computer, in 97 I played GTA, all while ten years younger than what these people are saying is too damn young to play violent videogames, and I turned out fine. Why? Because I'm not stupid, children down to the age of what, 3 years old, watch Tom and Jerry, and they know it's a cartoon, they don't go out into the world banging cats in the head, why? Because they aren't that fucking stupid, they know things don't work like that in real life. This is a fact these politicians don't like, because every generation has some form of entertainment that the politicians fear, and twenty years later, we all laugh at their stupid arses for arguementing against it. This happened with the rock of Elvis, this happened with every new technological advancement and music-genre that the older generation thought imposed on some values, or really, that they knew nothing about and was unvilling to learn anything about before they deemed it inappropriate. Videogames are in company not only with Elvis, but such terrible things as radio, television, vinyl-albums, cassette-tapes, cd's, comicbooks, the list goes on, and unless some smart people in governments start embracing technology instead of being afraid of it, the list will go on until some american arsehole blows us up in about 50 years.

You see, the problem is these people never played a videogame, they never gave it a chance, just as noone actually read Ozzy's "satanist" lyrics or anyone actually listened to Elvis before they banned him from shaking his hips on TV, now, I don't know this for a fact, but it sure as hell seems like it. They don't know what a mod is, they don't even have an idea what a cheat code is, because they seem to use the term code in their arguements like they have no idea that this code has to be entered through a second-party device (gameshark or the hot-coffee mod). Let me use myself as an example once more, back when i was in the second grade, that is 8 years here in Norway btw, I was already quite aware that people were using cheat codes in video games, I even knew this was most commonly used to test games more easily. Now, how come someone can't explain this whole thing to someone in a way that makes them see Rockstar never wanted this to be seen, never tried hiding it, when this information about programmers shortcuts had made it's way to an 8 year old kid that fully understood what it was all about, and that in '96...

I could rant for ages about why people suck, and why things are never going to change unless people stop being morons about these things and stop fearing the unknown, it's why we have racists btw, not to mention terrorists and other fundamentalists, like american bible-hugging, close minded twats liek good 'ol George...

It's all just sign of what I like to call "most american people are dumb as bread"-syndrome...

------------------

http://www.geocities.com/boerampen/kavsig2.png

Post 13 \| New	Posted July 29th, 2005. Updated July 29th, 2005
Cerbera Ben 'Cerbera' Millard Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,819	Cerbera high-fives Kab. Although, I disagree about "most Americans are dumb" part. Most Americans are as smart as any modern European, the difference is their media only shows the views of Victorian politicians and footage of young people being arrested. ------------------ (Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor \| GTA Tutorials)

Post 14 \| New	Posted July 29th, 2005
Azz the barbarian. grrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,851 Type: Administrator	exactly. I'm a strong believer that America is a victim of it's own media. If they took a moment to consider that the only contact most of the rest of the world has with them is CNN and Hollywood, would they change anything? I'd like to think so at least ------------------ azz.gouranga.com est. 1998 (I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 15 \| New	Posted July 29th, 2005
Faze Introverted Destruction Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,315	Yep, American media is sort of dumb that way. That's the critisism with modern American media nowadays, it's all watered down, and about the money. Hell, I cant stand American based TV shows, let alone the anime translated in America. American media sucks compared to media from other parts of the world. As with Kab, I too, was playing violent videogames at a very young age. In 1997, I played GTA... and I too didnt realize how violent it could be. I just simply had the fun of driving a vehicle freely down the streets of Liberty city. I didnt care about how many people got killed or anything, because I knew it was just a game. The same goes toward Duke Nukem 3D, Shadowwarrior, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom2, Age of Empires... etc. ------------------ Your fear... your master... your kitty.

Post 15 | New

Posted July 29th, 2005

Faze
Introverted Destruction

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,315

Yep, American media is sort of dumb that way. That's the critisism with modern American media nowadays, it's all watered down, and about the money. Hell, I cant stand American based TV shows, let alone the anime translated in America. American media sucks compared to media from other parts of the world.

As with Kab, I too, was playing violent videogames at a very young age. In 1997, I played GTA... and I too didnt realize how violent it could be. I just simply had the fun of driving a vehicle freely down the streets of Liberty city. I didnt care about how many people got killed or anything, because I knew it was just a game. The same goes toward Duke Nukem 3D, Shadowwarrior, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom2, Age of Empires... etc.

------------------
Your fear... your master... your kitty.

Post 16 \| New	Posted July 29th, 2005. Updated July 29th, 2005
kab NR. 47 Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 291	Ok, let me change my name for the syndrome to "most americans are as ignorant as bread"... Because the problem isn't in the fact their dumb, but more the fact they know nothing of the world outside their borders, seriously. <to read beyond this point you should be aware that I am not being too seriosu in what I'm saying, and that you shouldn't take everything I write literally, even if what I'm writing is exactly what I mean about a large portion of the american public > Most Americans don't know my country is a country, that despite the fact that large groups of people in the US are decendants from Norwegian immigrants that flooded over there in the 1800's... Many people somehow think Norway is the capitol of Sweden, the only reason they know about that country BTW, is that Sweden apparently is made up totally of men named Lars and blonde women (wearing lederhausen and singing in the alps btw) with huge boobs that often sends their volleyball team over for them to include in films (I know this is a sterotype view of swedes in the american media, I'm just trying to show how badly they portray themselves by using this, other points will soon be made to prove they are just as stupid in person :D). Not to mention the tourist offices in Norway have often been asked by american tourists if it is safe to feed the Trolls, yes, trolls, as in the ones in fairytales. (there you have a good fone for axample, true story, here's two more) I have a friend who lived in America until she was 6 years old, the last time she was there visiting her family, a guy asked her where she was from, she said Norway, to which he replied, that's in New Hampshire right? I know another girl who lived in the US for a year as an exchange student, after living with the host family for 8 months a discussion at their dinner table was about how things are in america, then she said how things were so different in Europe, to which the woman replied with shock "you've been to europe?"... This is after a norwegian girl has lived in your house for 8 months, mind this was a random american family, and in the obove example, random american guy, they were not chosen because they were dumb, they just were, dumb AND ignorant as bread. And just to clear things up for any such ignorant americans that are reading this, no, I don't have a polar-bear as a pet, they don't live in continental Norway (an Island that is norwegian territory, Svalbard has polarbears though, but they are only in the wild =)), No, we don't have penguins in the streets (penguins only live in the southern hemisphere, but since you're american and don't know what the world looks like, you wouldn't know that Norway is located up north, oh, I forgot, you guys think Santa Claus lives here don't you?, well, he doesn't, he isn't even real, sorry to burst your bubble... Norway does however own an Island called bouvet-řya, which is located in the pacific if i'm not mistaking, that is quite filled with penguins)... No, we don't still live like vikings, we are not barbarians, and you need not fear that we'll pillage your suitcase when you come to visit. NO vikings don't have horned helmets, noone had horned helmets, that's right, not a single god damn scandinavian person ever had such a thing, some ancient drawings of the nomadic peoples in northern norway, russia and finland are shown with horned heads, but these are renditions of gods, not people... ------------------

Post 16 | New

Posted July 29th, 2005. Updated July 29th, 2005

kab
NR. 47

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 291

Ok, let me change my name for the syndrome to "most americans are as ignorant as bread"... Because the problem isn't in the fact their dumb, but more the fact they know nothing of the world outside their borders, seriously.

<to read beyond this point you should be aware that I am not being too seriosu in what I'm saying, and that you shouldn't take everything I write literally, even if what I'm writing is exactly what I mean about a large portion of the american public

>

Most Americans don't know my country is a country, that despite the fact that large groups of people in the US are decendants from Norwegian immigrants that flooded over there in the 1800's... Many people somehow think Norway is the capitol of Sweden, the only reason they know about that country BTW, is that Sweden apparently is made up totally of men named Lars and blonde women (wearing lederhausen and singing in the alps btw) with huge boobs that often sends their volleyball team over for them to include in films (I know this is a sterotype view of swedes in the american media, I'm just trying to show how badly they portray themselves by using this, other points will soon be made to prove they are just as stupid in person :D). Not to mention the tourist offices in Norway have often been asked by american tourists if it is safe to feed the Trolls, yes, trolls, as in the ones in fairytales. (there you have a good fone for axample, true story, here's two more)

I have a friend who lived in America until she was 6 years old, the last time she was there visiting her family, a guy asked her where she was from, she said Norway, to which he replied, that's in New Hampshire right?

I know another girl who lived in the US for a year as an exchange student, after living with the host family for 8 months a discussion at their dinner table was about how things are in america, then she said how things were so different in Europe, to which the woman replied with shock "you've been to europe?"... This is after a norwegian girl has lived in your house for 8 months, mind this was a random american family, and in the obove example, random american guy, they were not chosen because they were dumb, they just were, dumb AND ignorant as bread.

And just to clear things up for any such ignorant americans that are reading this, no, I don't have a polar-bear as a pet, they don't live in continental Norway (an Island that is norwegian territory, Svalbard has polarbears though, but they are only in the wild =)), No, we don't have penguins in the streets (penguins only live in the southern hemisphere, but since you're american and don't know what the world looks like, you wouldn't know that Norway is located up north, oh, I forgot, you guys think Santa Claus lives here don't you?, well, he doesn't, he isn't even real, sorry to burst your bubble... Norway does however own an Island called bouvet-řya, which is located in the pacific if i'm not mistaking, that is quite filled with penguins)...

No, we don't still live like vikings, we are not barbarians, and you need not fear that we'll pillage your suitcase when you come to visit. NO vikings don't have horned helmets, noone had horned helmets, that's right, not a single god damn scandinavian person ever had such a thing, some ancient drawings of the nomadic peoples in northern norway, russia and finland are shown with horned heads, but these are renditions of gods, not people...

------------------

Post 17 \| New	Posted July 29th, 2005
DaDa123 Yuki-San Joined: Aug '03 Posts: 969	Sniff Oh man beautifully said, that was amazing! Sniff

Post 18 \| New	Posted July 30th, 2005
illspirit lycanthroplasty Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 277 Type: Administrator	chrisrockz wrote: It was funny! CJ has sex fully clothed with naked chicks.... Actually, that was after we butchered the mission script. In the scenes that "ship" with the game, 5 out of 6 girls are wearing clothes! And the 6th? Well, her textures weren't even finished, and are a jumbled mess of green stripes and no face save for eyes that appear on the kneecaps or something. Meanwhile, at least four other titles with actual nudity and interactive sexing, and another game with video clips of real life strippers, are all rated M. And being sold on shelves of half the stores which were oh so shocked by fully clothed dry humping. So, yea, as an Amerikan, I fully agree that this country is overflowing with idiots. Anyone have any info on how I can defect to and get political asylum in the UK?

Post 18 | New

Posted July 30th, 2005

illspirit
lycanthroplasty

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 277
Type: Administrator

chrisrockz wrote:

It was funny! CJ has sex fully clothed with naked chicks....

Actually, that was after we butchered the mission script. In the scenes that "ship" with the game, 5 out of 6 girls are wearing clothes! And the 6th? Well, her textures weren't even finished, and are a jumbled mess of green stripes and no face save for eyes that appear on the kneecaps or something. Meanwhile, at least four other titles with actual nudity and interactive sexing, and another game with video clips of real life strippers, are all rated M. And being sold on shelves of half the stores which were oh so shocked by fully clothed dry humping.

So, yea, as an Amerikan, I fully agree that this country is overflowing with idiots. Anyone have any info on how I can defect to and get political asylum in the UK?

Post 19 \| New	Posted July 30th, 2005
Cerbera Ben 'Cerbera' Millard Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,819	illspirit wrote: chrisrockz wrote: It was funny! CJ has sex fully clothed with naked chicks.... Actually, that was after we butchered the mission script. In the scenes that "ship" with the game, 5 out of 6 girls are wearing clothes! And the 6th? Well, her textures weren't even finished, and are a jumbled mess of green stripes and no face save for eyes that appear on the kneecaps or something. Meanwhile, at least four other titles with actual nudity and interactive sexing, and another game with video clips of real life strippers, are all rated M. And being sold on shelves of half the stores which were oh so shocked by fully clothed dry humping. So, yea, as an Amerikan, I fully agree that this country is overflowing with idiots. Anyone have any info on how I can defect to and get political asylum in the UK? It's not much better here. Our idiots are not just stupid, they are stupid and extremely drunk, driving at 60mph through the town center. (EDIT) Also, if any of them found out you were a migrant/asylum seeker, they'd kill you. ------------------ (Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor \| GTA Tutorials)

Post 19 | New

Posted July 30th, 2005

Cerbera
Ben 'Cerbera' Millard

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,819

illspirit wrote:

chrisrockz wrote:

It was funny! CJ has sex fully clothed with naked chicks....

It's not much better here. Our idiots are not just stupid, they are stupid and extremely drunk, driving at 60mph through the town center.

(EDIT) Also, if any of them found out you were a migrant/asylum seeker, they'd kill you.

------------------
(Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor | GTA Tutorials)

Post 20 \| New	Posted July 31st, 2005
kab NR. 47 Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 291	If you are willing to take an IQ test to prove your mental-capabilities, I'll consider giving you free housing to save you from the stupidity. ------------------

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